If you look at the public opinion polls in both Armenia and Azerbaijan the general public is usually
more negative to making compromises than the presidents. Is there any way that you can see a path
for getting to the solution using a step-wise process, not necessarily by handing back these
territories [outside the borders of the Soviet NK Autonomous Oblast], but by making some other
types of compromise?
R.A: Well, since 2001 we have suggested to Azerbaijan to implement confidence-building measures
between the two societies. The mood in society is a responsibility of the head of state. All the
information policies are ruled in Azerbaijan by the state, we all know that. If you compare the
media in Azerbaijan and Armenia, in Azerbaijan there is anti-Armenian hatred every day, cultivation
of anti-Armenian propaganda every day and it is considered to be normal. There is nothing like that
in Armenia. Noone from the Armenian side is rejecting the idea of compromise, I mean both
Armenian sides. The Azerbaijani side demands what? Restoration of its administration of Nagorno-
Karbakh, unconditional return of all the territories they call Nagorno-Karabakh, return of refugees,
then they want to speak about a final solution.
Again, we should abandon all unrealistic ideas. If we want to establish peace in the region, we have
to be open, we have to act openly, we have to be sincere with our public and that is a very minor
step we can take towarrd confidence-building between the two sides. If there is no confidence, no
Azerbaijani can return even close to the border of Karabakh and no Armenian can go to Baku, so for
peaceful coexistence in a region you must have confidence. Azerbaijan is still refusing that. We
think thát one way out can be throgh confidence-building measures and the N-K conflict is the only
conflict in the area where you don't see any direct talks between the conflicting sides. So
restoration of Nagorno-Karabakh negotiations in full format is a way to show the NK population and
the NK leadership that we are realistic. We want to talk to you, we want to take into account your
position.
What types of confidence-building measures...
R.A: We suggested to them... The package didn't include anything that could imply in any way
recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh for Azerbaijan. There were some minor projects like joint usage of
water resources, joint firefighting in the borderland, we already know that we had some problems
there, fight against pests, against malaria in the army units of both sides. What else? Something like
that, you know.
We have minor projects, which could be a first step to try to establish confidence between the
sides, but again our initiative didn't receive any reply from Azerbaijan.
Could the rapproachment with Turkey then be a trigger to start confidence building measures?
R.A: That could be, but again, these are two separate processes, Turkey and Armenia is one case,
Nagorno-Karabakh and Azerbaijan is another case. When I say that Turkey could play a more positive
role in the region I meant that Turkey could refrain from unilateral support of all the Azerbaijani
actions, such that they have been doing throughout the years.
It seems also that Russia is intent on playing a big role in the region. Do you have a view on that?
R.A: Well, Russia has always played a big role in the region and is one of the mediators; Russia is
one of the co-chairs of the Minsk group. But there is no separate role of Russia in the region, I mean
in the region of Nagorno-Karabakh. And you know that the Russian-Armenian ties are very much
active on every level, but that is up to the Armenian Embassy in the United States. (...) Russia's role
for Nagorno-Karabakh is within the Minsk group, together with the United States and France for the
European Union.
Leaving the conflict aside, what is the status of the economy in Karabakh at the moment?
R.A: Well, our main difference from all the countries in the region is that the Nagorno-Karabakh
republic has been doing very well in terms of democracy and economic development. We had four
rounds of parliamentary and presidential elections, all of them were assessed as free and
transparent by international observers, absolutely free and absolutely transparent. This was
reflected also in the report of the Freedom House organization and in many other authoritative
organizations. So democracy is one of the biggest achievements and this again is another reason
why Nagorno-Karabakh and Azerbaijan cannot co-exist anymore as one administrative entity,
because we all know that in Azerbaijan there is a life-time president now, we all know the political
system in Azerbaijan, that's not our choice. We want to live in a free and open and democratic
society, which is now incompatible with that of Azerbaijan.
The economic situation is doing quite well, considering all the difficulties linked with the recent
economic crisis. Again we showed 16.8% economic growth in the first half of 2009. Nagorno-
Karabakh has been traditionally an agricultural country. Since the ceasefire in 1994 we have been
trying to restore the economic potential of the country and now we achieved very good results in
mining, agriculture and food processing industry, communications, and we see an increased amount
of direct investment into the NKR economy. The GDP growth per capita is very significant and now
we have about 2000 USD per capita. So the rates of economic development show that our chosen
way to develop as a country was the right thing to do and we are determined to continue.
Do you have figures on how much is direct investment from Armenia? There must be an issue with
foreign investment because of the unrecognized status of the republic?
R.A: Well, I should say that being unrecognized doesn't hamper direct investment from foreign
countries, because they are done not by the governments, but by persons and businesses, which are
not linked in any way by obligations of state. The foreign investmenst throughout the years reached
about 180 million dollars and the process is still continuing. We have created very favorable
investment conditions, like low taxation - taxation incentives - very cheap labor force, but good
quality also, and effective government, which is very important. People know that the whole
process is transparent and that the government is responsible for all the money people invest in the
NKR economy. I can not give you the exact figures and portion of Armenian and foreign investments,
but all the investments are considered foreign for us if they come from the outside. I realize that
we have very much in common with the Armenian economic field, but still we have some
peculiarities that make us more attractive in several directions.
How is the Karabakhi economy different from the Armenian economy? What types of agreement to
you have between the states? Obviously you have customs freedom and...
R.A: Yes, we have customs freedom and... our economies are very much interlinked. But as I said,
the taxation field is a little different in Nagorno-Karabakh, which significantly affects investment.
Taxation revenue goes directly into the NKR...
R.A: Directly into the NKR budget.
What about military cooperation?
R.A: Again, Armenia has repeatedly stated that Armenia is the main guarantor of the situation of the
Nagorno-Karabakh population. But Nagorno-Karabakh Defence Forces is a separate structure,
everything is separate, we are holding our borders, we are ensuring the security of our population,
we remain the main guarantor of the security of the population. But of course the cooperation is
not only with Armenia, but also with other countries.
The European Union has a programme for the South Caucasus (...) with representative Peter
Semneby who was in Karabakh recently. But there are also fields, like tourism and trade (...) What
kind of cooperation would you like to see, what is realistic to expect when it comes to trade with
Europe?
R.A: You know, first we have to break the image that Karabakh is a danger zone and war zone.
Nagorno-Karabakh as you very rightly mention, throughout the Soviet years even, has been very
attractive as a tourist place. Now we see about 20-25% increase in the number of tourists every
year. We do have a governmental programme on promoting tourism in Nagorno-Karabakh, we do
organize exhibits on Karabakh in various countries around the world, a couple of them already took
place in Europe, in France and in Rome. So that could be one of the possibilities for cooperation, to
show what is Karabakh indeed. People, even Armenians from the diaspora, are afraid, they are
scared by the public opinion or by the image created by the media. You have been there, you know
that it's very safe, very quiet, very calm and friendly atmosphere and the people are very
hospitable. To develop tourism we have all the necessary infrastructure. Almost all roads in the
Republic, all the major roads, are very well kept.
For cooperation with European countries I would mention that we have two representations in
Europe, in Berlin and in Paris. (...) Probably European tourists make up about 50% of the general
number of tourists coming. Just because we say that Karabakh is a good place and we promote
tourism there doesn't say that Europe is supporting the independence of Karabakh. No, they are just
regular... We want to show people what we have achieved.
Many of the tourists coming from Europe I suppose are coming on package tours, which include
Georgia and sometimes Azerbaijan...
R.A: Yes, there are some difficulties in that respect, but again, we are trying to facilitate their
entry into the country without any consequences for them, so they will be able to go to Azerbaijan
if they want afterwards.
A totally different topic, I read a few days ago that Karabakh had a visit from Moldovan
Pridnestrovie.
R.A: Yes, Transnistria.
What is your relation to the other unrecognized entities in Europe?
R.A: Well, you know, before Abkhazia and South Ossetia had been recognized as independent states
by Venezuela and Russia there had been attempts to make a kind of forum of unrecognized states.
But the foreign policy agenda and the geographic difficulties did not allow this to happen. Our
foreign policy agenda was, and remains, a bit different from all the other similar cases. Abkhazia,
Ossetia and Transnistria are very close to each other, in a geographical aspect and a political
aspect. We had some difficulties to implement full-time cooperation. Now we have cooperation on
the level of cooperation and bilateral visits.
If we speak about Nagorno-Karabakh recognition as an independent state, you know that the
international law doesn't provide the necessity of recognition from other states. If we proclaim
ourselves to be sovereign, that's it, we don't need to be recognized by others. We want to take this
opportunity to live how we want to live. And we want to show to the world that we are open to
become a member of the international community, but we are not ready to do it at any cost. For
Azerbaijan there is an issue of restoration of political image of the ruling family, but for us there is
an issue of physical existence, physical security.
How do you want Armenia to act on the Karabakh issue?
R.A: Armenia. Well, Armenia is acting the way we want it to act. I mean, we are in very close
cooperation with Armenia and everything the Armenian president is doing (...) in the negotiations is
of course coordinated and discussed and agreed with the Karabakhi president.
So you feel that the cooperation is working well?
R.A: Yes.
If we imagine that all the goals are achieved, Nagorno-Karabakh becomes a recognized republic
with the borders according to the constitution of the NKR, what would you like the future to be
like?
R.A: You mean unification wth Armenia? Of course, even now, we are ready to become a member of
the international community in the whole meaning of this word, with open borders, with trade, with
cooperation, with predictable partnerships in the neighborhood, with all the countries. (...)
Concerning our future. When the latest stage of this movement began in 1988 everything began as a
movement within the Soviet Union to transfer Nagorno-Karabakh from the Azerbaijani Soviet
Socialist Republic to the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic. But when the disintegration of the
Soviet Union began we saw that the constitution of the Soviet Union gave us the legal procedure
and legal right to declare independence. So we wanted to act in compliance with the law. We did.
Now we have an independent state and throughout the years of independence we had two
referenda, one on the proclamation of the Republic, the second one on the adoption of the
constitution. So in both cases, the population of Nagorno-Karabakh voted to form a separate
independent state and reiterated in 2006 when we adopted the constitution to remain an
independent state. What will happen next will be up to our children our grandchildren, it will be
their choice. But of course the movement began as a movement for reunification with Armenia.
One final thing. Sweden is currently chairing the EU. Is there anything you would like to see the EU
do in this regard?
R.A: Well, Europe has been very active throughout the years in the Nagorno-Karabakh resolution.
The only thing we can anticipate from the EU and from the rest of the world is to take a just and
fair - we don't want any structures to be pro-Armenian, we want all the actors of the international
community to be just and fair. That's enough for us. We are convinced that we did everything right,
in full compliance with the same European standards. We consider ourselves to be a European
society and the only thing that we lack now is the (...) communication between the official
representatives of Nagorno-Karabakh and the European countries. We are sure that if we are given
such an opportunity, the whole process of the NK resolution would greatly benefit if the whole
world is open to discuss with us and open to ask us what we want. (...) That's very important to us.
(...) We want peace in the region and staability for our children, that's it. (...) Peace. Peace is
number one and everything we are doing, including here in D.C., in Paris, in Moscow, in Berlin, is
only for peace, to maintain peace. We know what war is. We don't want it to happen again.
[]
New Eurasia Center
A forum for cooperation, development and research in Eastern Europe and Central Asia
